Rumainian Air Force Ranks pre 45

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Rumainian Air Force Ranks pre 45

Post  wfrad on Thu 25 Aug 2011, 12:07 am

This charts intended to cover from the mid thirties up until 1945.
Warrant officer ranks were different for air crew and ground crew, the latter having chevrons.
There's nothing mentioned that I've managed to find regarding the most senior ground staff warrant officer, I'm not sure if the rank was ever used as most illustrations and pictures only show the grade below, I've added it anyway.
As for the colours used, put it down to artistic licence or being colour blind

update; a few changes,



Last edited by wfrad on Fri 24 Feb 2012, 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : update)

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Nigel Thomas

Post  Nigel Thomas on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 4:26 am

A good chart but there are mistakes. The chevron ranks are wrong. They should read (from the bottom):- 1 thin above 1 medium bar (not 1 chevron); 2 medium bars (not two chevrons), 1 thin above 2 medium bars (not 3 chevrons), 3 chevrons (not 4 chevrons).

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Romanian Air Rank Chart

Post  wfrad on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 8:26 am

Nigal
This was taken mainly from a Polish source which indicated that ground crew warrant officers wore chevrons, while air crew warrant officers wore wings. I cross referenced with Rosignoli's Air Force Badges and Insignia of WW2, which also states that ground grew warrant officers wore chevrons rather than wings or bars.

Junior air-force ranks had bars of equal width as the army, while the more senior NCO's of the army had narrow and wide bars, Sergeant Major broad with single narrow above, Senior Warrant Officer two broad with single narrow above.

Mollo's Chart in his Armed Forces of World War II shows the rank of Senior Warrant officer for Air Crew with three wings and for Ground Crew with three chevrons.

Going off those sources I just filled in the missing grades to what I believed them to be,

Since I'm unable to find any complete rank breakdown that my single grey cell can handle, I wait and see if anyone has any further information. What doesn't help is the lack of noted pictorial evidence for ground crew grades.

If you have any details I could use to redo the chart please let me know.


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Romanian Air Force Chart

Post  Nigel Thomas on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 2:37 am

Dear Wfrad,

I have two charts showing correct ranks but as a new member do not know how to post them onto the forum. Can you tell me how you did it, or can I send them to your e-mail address so you can redo the chart and post it for everyone's benefit, or is that against the rules.

In the meantime I am posting a verbal description of the ranks for the FARR (Royal Romanian Air Force) 1939-1947. There were 6 groups of ranks. By the way, shoulder-straps for ranks below officer were uniform blue piped light blue on all sides except the base (not gold all the way round:-

a. 4 ranks of general-officers; the four you show plus a top rank of Marshal of Aviation with 5 medium rings (with a space between the second and third ring. There was no FARR rank with four medium rings.
b. 6 ranks of officers, as you have shown, plus a top rank of 'Comodor' with a Comandor's cuff rings but a general-officers' cap-badge and double oak-leaf peak embroidery and light blue breeches stripes (1 thin piping, 2 thick stripes).
c. 4 ranks of NCO aircrew with insignia on shoulder-straps:- 4-1 little gold wings on sas you have shown.
d. 4 ranks of NCO Technicians with insignia on shoulder-straps:- 3 5-pointed gold stars in a triangkle above a medium gold bar, 3 stars in a triangle, 2 horizontal stars, 1 central star.
e. 4 ranks of NCO ground crew with insignia on shoulder-straps:- 3 medium chevrons point up, 1 thin and two medium bars, 2 medium bars, 1 thin and one medium bar.
f. 4 ranks of enlisted ground crew with medium bars on shoulder-straps:- 1 gold, 2-0 yellow.

Ranks c-e were parallel career-paths and ranks were equivalent to each other. In the communist period, NCO aircrew were abolished and NCO technicians effectively became Warrant Officers ranking between officers and NCOs. Nowadays the technicians and ground-crew are again parallel.

Mollo, Rosignoli and the Poles may have copied each other. In any case their main mistake was to omit three of the four NCO ground-crew ranks. The 3-chevron rank does look wrong but it is correct.

All the Best

Nigel

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Re: Rumainian Air Force Ranks pre 45

Post  Nigel Thomas on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 2:48 am

Dear All,

Further to my posting here is the first FARR chart, by Serbanescu

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/17/28/69/94/afarr_10.jpg

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Romanian Air Force Chart

Post  Nigel Thomas on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 2:53 am

Dear All,

Here is the second chart, buy Modelism.

Enjoy

Nigel

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/17/28/69/94/farr_m10.jpg

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Charts

Post  wfrad on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 4:37 am

Nigal,
Have you an account with any of the free hosting sites? If you don't photobucket [http://photobucket.com/]would be a good place to start but there are quite a few to choose from.
First upload you graphic to 'photo bucket' and save it into a folder of choice.
Once saved you will have a link to paste into forums, the help function on the site should help.
Copy the link and paste into the body of the forum page,
Preview to see if it's worked, if not just try another link option.
Photo bucket is I believe the best site for anyone starting off on forum links.
Hope this helps.

I see what you mean about the charts!
If you would like the pages showing the rank charts just send a private message and I will do my best to scan and send them to you.

Regards
WF

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Romanian Air Force

Post  wfrad on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 11:06 am

This chart done just to highlight the problem of various illustrations regarding insignia.
I agree that many of the authors may have just copied each other work, but Funcken also used this rank system and Rosignoli mentions a German rank chart dated 1939. the mention of the German chart implies that he did his own research also.
It just seems strange that several noted authors have all made the same mistake, authors noted for doing their homework.

Maybe it would be of help if someone could find the German '39 chart, or some contemporary rank illustrations.

The chart below was taken from the Rathbone web site [http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/ROMANIA/ROMMain.html] which yet again contradicts information given from the charts you supplied.

Collar colours for example change from one translation to another, not just the shade but sometimes completely.
An example would be the Reconnaissance shown here as yellow but on many charts the reconnaissance collar is shown as light blue.
This could be explained simply by the cross over period taken by many units to implement changes in regulations or bad translations.

Main Arm of Service colours were as far as it's possible to tell;
Anti-Aircraft - Purple or Black,
Bombers - Red,
Engineers – Royal or Dark Blue,
Fighters - Green [mid to dark],
General – Light Blue,
Medical Red [dark or cherry],
Mechanics – Violet,
Search Lights – Light Blue,
Signals – Brown,
Schools – Orange,
Reconnaissance – Light Blue or Yellow depending on date or source used,
Engineer officers had rank highlighted with service colour.


Last edited by wfrad on Thu 23 Feb 2012, 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : update)

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Romanian Air Force Chart

Post  Nigel Thomas on Mon 20 Feb 2012, 7:01 am

I looked at the Rathbone site. The first chart covers the rabnk insignia for the Romanian Air Force 1930-1939. The rank insignia is correct. For the 1939-1947 period the most accurate is the Serbanescu chart, if you add the 'Comodor' rank (or appointment).

There are several very interesting Romanian forums on rank insignia. One, 'Traditia Militara' notes three ranks for commissioned NCOs:-

Oficer de echipaj clasa Ia (Commissioned Warrant Officer 1st Class) equivalent to Captain (Capitan).
Oficer de echipaj clasa IIa (Commissioned Warrant Officer 2nd Class) equivalent to Lieutenant (Locotenent).
Oficer de echipaj clasa IIIa (Commissioned Warrant Officer 3rd Class) equivalent to 2nd Lieutenant (Sublocotenent).

I don't know what their rank insignia was; I wonder if it was 3-1 Army style shoulder-strap bars.

I have also been investigating the branch-colours. It is a bit of a mess but I am inclined to prefer Romanian sources to British or American sources if there is conflict. I organized it as a chart but seem to have lost the formating. Hpe it's readable.


Branch insignia of the Royal Romanian Air Force (Forțele Aeriene ale Regale Române – FARR)
1930 – 1947 (Dr. Nigel Thomas 19 February 2012).
Branch (English) Branch (Romanian) The correct branch colour (in my opinion) Comments
General-officers Comandamentele Light blue with gold braid oak leaves on collar-patches Vladescu and Serbanescu say ‘navy blue’; Mollo confirms light blue.
General Staff Stat Major Dark blue Mollo 1975/1982.
Royal Adjutants aghiotanții Amaranth (Purple?) Vladescu and Traditia Militara website.
Fighter aircraft Vânători Dark green
Bomber aircraft Bombardement Red
Reconnaissance aircraft Recunoaştere Light blue, maybe yellow later. Vladescu says blue, Rathbone says yellow.
Seaplane Flotilla Hidroaviația Gold metal anchor on collar
Airships Aerostația Brown
NCO Aircrew Adjutanti According to flying branch 1930: rank chevrons point down on left upper sleeve? 1939: small gold rank wings on shoulder-straps.
Anti-Aircraft Artillery Artileria antiaeriană Light blue piped black, later black
Aviation Engineering Geniul aeronautic Black piped red
Engineers Ingenerii Royal blue Vladescu and Serbanescu say dark blue.
Medical officers Medicii Purple Rosignoli says ‘cherry red’.
Mechanics (officers?) Mecanicii Violet
NCO mechanics Maiștrii de aviaţie Violet 1930: rank chevrons point down on left upper sleeve; 1939 stars and bars on shoulder-straps.
Schools Scoli Orange Only Mollo 1975 quotes this.
Signals ? Light blue piped brown Rathbone only; seems unlikely.
Paratroopers Paraşutisti Light blue Mollo only.
General Duties ? Light blue Rathbone only; seems unlikely.
Other NCOs Subofițeri According to ground branch 1930: rank chevrons point down on left upper sleeve; 1939 Army-style rank chevrons point up or bars piped in branch-colour on shoulder-straps.
Enlisted personnel below NCO rank - No collar patches 1930: rank chevrons point down on left upper sleeve; 1939 Army-style rank bars piped in branch-colour on shoulder-straps.

Branch colours:
a. Officers wore branch-colours underneath the rank rings worn on the service tunic cuffs and shirt shoulder-straps.
b. NCO Aircrew (Adjutant șef, Adjutant major, Adjutant, Adjutant stagiar) wore branch-coloured collar-patches and underlay to their sleeve chevrons worn 1930-1939.
c. NCO mechanics (Maistru principal, Maistru militar clasa Ia – IIIa) wore violet collar-patches and underlay to their sleeve chevrons worn 1930-1939.
d. Other NCOs (Plutonier adjutant, plutonier major, Plutonier, Sergent major) wore branch-coloured collar-patches and underlay to their sleeve chevrons worn 1930-1939 and shoulder-strap insignia 1939-1947.
e. Enlisted personnel below NCO rank (Sergent, Caporal, Fruntaș, Soldat) branch-coloured underlay to their sleeve chevrons worn 1930-1939 and shoulder-strap insignia 1939-1947.

Sources:
1) ‘Naval, Marine and Air Force Uniforms of World War II’, Andrew Mollo, Blandford, Poole, 1975. Description of 1939 insignia.
2). ‘Air Force Badges and Insignia of World War II’, Guido Rosignoli, Blandford, Poole, 1976.
3). ‘Uniformele armatei române’; Cristian M. Vladescu, Editura Meridiane, Bucharest 1977. Description of the 1930 and 1939 uniforms.
4). ‘The Armed Forces of World War II’Andrew Mollo, Orbis, London 1982. Plate on 1939 rank ionsignia and some branch-colours.
5). ‘Armata Română 1941-1945’; Horia Vl. Şerbănescu et al, Editura RAI, Bucharest 1996. Chart of rank insignia and description of branch insignia.
6). ‘Romanian Aeronautics in the Second World War’; Cristian Crăciunoiu & Jean-Lois Roba, Modelism, Bucharest 200-3.
7). ‘Early War Rank Chart’, Rathbone Museum website, 2012. This shows correct 1930 rank insignia and different branch colours. This is probably the ‘German Wall Chart’ that Rosignoli describes.
Cool. Traditia militara website.

All the Best

Nigel

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Romanian

Post  wfrad on Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:00 am

Nigal,
I've sent a private message, thanks for the additional info.
Wf

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Romanian service colours

Post  wfrad on Thu 23 Feb 2012, 11:53 am

Chart by Nigel Thomas.
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

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