Spanish Civil War

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Spanish Civil War

Post  wfrad on Sun 11 Oct 2009, 6:23 pm

I thought the Spanish Civil War was due a mention.
I suppose you could call them the territorial army of the civil war. I believe the intention, never materialized, was to have formations wholly of volunteers led by volunteer officers.
In reality they were under the control of the regular military, also an experiment to have officer academies for the volunteer officers failed I believe due to the applicants lack of funding.
San Martin, Uniformes Militares de la Guerra Civil Española – Jose MABueno
Regards
WF
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/wfrad/Spanishcivilwarvolunteerranks.jpg

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Spanish National's rank

Post  wfrad on Mon 12 Oct 2009, 11:02 pm

Here’s an attempt at the National Army’s rank insignia for the civil war. I believe it gives the general idea.
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WF


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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  ChrisF202 on Tue 13 Oct 2009, 12:13 am

Good work Bill!

Excellent job on the Falange rank insignia chart, you did them perfect according to the written description that I have Cool

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Spanish Milicias del Requité 1936

Post  wfrad on Tue 13 Oct 2009, 9:10 pm

Thanks chris,
This one’s the Milicias del Requité 1936, forgive the lack of information but that’s due to the single brain cell getting confused with some of the Spanish terms used, so I though no info is better than a nonsense translation and needless to say not to scale,
Regards
WF

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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  RagePaintedSky on Sat 17 Oct 2009, 9:35 pm

Hi, WF, a nice post. Trust me when I say it is not a matter of brain capacity to understand such things as the Requeté… even for most Spaniards are difficult to explain…

The word Requeté doesn’t have a translation, it is just a designation to a XIX century born right wing, ultra-conservative, catholic movement. The real name is Comunión Tradicionalista and they were known simply as Tradicionalistas or Carlistas (Traditionalists or Carlists) for their attachment to tradition and anti-revolutionary vocation and their support to the pretender king Charles –Charles V for their supporters, with a strong opposition to the values of the French Revolution- in 1833). The popular designation was Requeté (for movement or a single person) and Requetés (for people)
The term Requeté is popularly believed to mean the-most-traditionalists (as prefix re- in Spanish means “more than” and requete- means “even more than”, the popular believe was that it was for reque-Traditionalists). Actually it seems the term came from a joke that derived into a song and dubbed a Traditionalist battalion, and, hence the entire movement.
The Requetés (or Traditionalists/Carlists) had a special strength in the Spanish regions of Navarre and Basque Country (almost a half of the Traditionalist soldiers came from this two regions). The use of the flower… I don’t know the English name of the heraldry flower of the House of Bourbon… well… the use of this flower in the ranks was rooted to its origins as supporters of the separate line of the bourbon family represented by Charles V.
In April 19th 1937, for political purposes at least, the Traditionalist Communion was merged with the (previously merged too) Falange and JONS [National Syndicalist Offensive Boards] –simply known as Falange- to create the Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista [a Spanish diplomat always added to it “and of the Great European Express Trains”]. This large name was designated too as the Movimiento Nacional [National Movement] and became the only political party after the war.
In the sixties, Spanish Carlists split into two movements, one faithful to its origins and another with a socialist leaning.
Sorry the extent of the post… At least I hope it will be a practical demonstration that there was no problem with your brain... Very Happy
After all… I guess the translation of Milicia del Requeté could be Traditionalist Militia as well.



This was the flag of Requeté units, a Burgundy Cross -known in Spain as Cruz de San Andrés [St. Andrew's Cross]-.

Thanks for the nice posts…
Regards

Felip

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Naval Fascists

Post  wfrad on Sat 17 Oct 2009, 11:02 pm

Hi Felip
Thanks for the information, like many of these groups they are little known outside of their home area, also there is a tendency now to try and forget such groups practically those in Europe who sided with the Nazi's.
I believe in Spain at the moment there's a growing movement to find the missing, those shot and buried where executed. Not too popular with a lot of people wanting to forget and move on, from both sides in the war.
Here's a chart for the Navy ranks, quite difficult to find a good example of the admiral’s braid so some poetic license was used.
By the way your English is far better than my Spanish which amounts to hello and goodbye.
Regards

WF

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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  buistR on Sat 17 Oct 2009, 11:11 pm

That's very interesting Felip - English-language histories of the Civil War generally use the noun Requeté for this movement without any explanation as to its origins or meaning (beyond vague references to Catholic conservatism). Your description was most informative.

Opening new fields of research and enquiry again WF. Keep up the good work!

Cheers

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Spanish National Volunteers [C.T.V.]

Post  wfrad on Sun 18 Oct 2009, 5:52 pm

I have squashed these onto one chart to show the variation in rank structure between different volunteer nations.
The German Condor Legion has the basic ranks required to do the task at hand, whereas the other rank system used by the other volunteers seems to have gone over the top with the number of grades.
It appears the only the Germans seemed to conform to their dress regulations without adding various additions onto their uniform.
Other volunteer units placed (such as the Italians) rank on the chest or the sleeve and probably their underpants, as far as I’m aware the Condor Legion’s rank was placed mainly on the chest.
The interpreter’s badge of Legion Condor was worn on the breast and the backing colour depended on the unit of which they were attached too.
Again I have stayed with the Spanish names and hope that I’ve not made too many errors!
Regards
WF


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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  RagePaintedSky on Sun 18 Oct 2009, 6:36 pm

Thanks buistR, omitting explanations in English texts is understandable as it's not too well known even in Spain... I'm glad you found it useful...

In Spain there’s a worrying tradition of starting civil wars, and if the term “war” stands for terrible things, the add of “civil” boost that even more. Some we think scars of our last civil war are a difficult subject to deal with in a balanced way, so the ones who fortunately were just indirectly affected should better opt to… I believe the English expression is kiss and make up; what did happen did it, it was terrible, both sides conducted shamefully and it’s our chance to behave more properly (as long as we can).
I guess people who fought and died in a war, whichever side they were in (sometimes not willingly or brainwashed to do it) it’s a better tribute to keep their memory alive (like this and other Internet forums do) than unearthing bones, but that’s a personal point of view…

About the drawings, I don’t know much about Navy ranks, but the ones on the Falange, Army and Requeté were accurate, so extrapolating Navy ones should be too… It’s a very nice work.
In addition you can use the Army drawing to depict the Guardia Civil ranks, GC was a militarized police, save for the Soldado de 1ª which they didn’t have, the rest of the ranks are the same of the army in a dark green background.
GC was dismantled in 1937 in the Republican Zone, in the National Army they formed columns and acted mostly as supporting units and rearguard security service, although they earned some fame in punctual separate actions.
Nowadays GC has been put apart from the armed forces and just wear its characteristic patent leather three-cornered in full dress required events.



http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/11/49/15/07/zzzzzz76.jpg
I put here a contemporary sample of a GC Teniente General (Lieutenant General) rank insignia just to show the colour. I guess Civil War era insignia would not wear the royal crown neither the lictor and sword corps emblem that dates from 1947.

http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/11/49/15/07/zzzzzz77.jpg
GC Civil War time emblem.
[Both images are taken from the Wikipedia]

http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/11/49/15/07/zzzzzz78.jpg
By the way, I came across a picture of a Spanish admiral in the Spanish Navy site, I cropped the rank insignia to show the detail. [Thumbnail size shown, clicking the image will bring to the actual size]
I've seen many worse versions than yours while searching for a sample... Very Happy
I hope I'm not spoiling the post by adding my images... pale
Great work with the CTV and the Condor Legion too... Congratulations...
Regards

Felip

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Republican Army ranks

Post  wfrad on Sun 18 Oct 2009, 10:36 pm

Thanks Felip,
I searched for quite some time for a good example of the admiral’s rank, without much success, it’s a nice example you have found.

Yes, I agree with you up to a point about the mass graves but what about those who want to find loved one’s so that they can have some closure, maybe buried next to them when their time comes? Finding them just to give them a decent burial is one thing, a good thing really. If it’s to cause political unrest and to resurrect old scores then it shouldn’t be done and let sleeping dogs lie as they say.

Hard question to answer for those of us not involved but it’s sure to cause some problems with those who have a guilty conscience on both sides.

Anyway here’s an attempt at the Republican army ranks.
Regards

wf

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Republican Navy and Airforce Officer ranks

Post  wfrad on Wed 21 Oct 2009, 9:39 pm

As far as I can tell here are the Officer grades for the Republican Navy and Air Force,
Regards
WF


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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  ChrisF202 on Thu 22 Oct 2009, 1:46 am

Bill, in regards to the Republican Army general rank; I believe they had multiple grades of general each with it's own rank insignia but I could be wrong.

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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  wfrad on Thu 22 Oct 2009, 7:45 pm

Hi Chris,
I didn’t notice in the text but since my Spanish is 0% doesn’t mean I that I didn’t miss it.
That’s what you get for making the assumption that both forces were more or less equally structured.
I’ll go back and have another look as the three star’s for General could be for a Senior General with two grades below.
Regards
WF

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Re: Spanish Civil War

Post  RagePaintedSky on Thu 22 Oct 2009, 10:27 pm

Hi, I have taken advantage of being a Spaniard and having no language handicap to learn a bit more about the Republican Army ranks...
At first, I thought, as Chris, that there would be several general degrees, in a contemporary way, but I was wrong. The Ejército Popular de la República (Republican People's Army) had just a rank for generals, and its insignia was as depicted in WF's drawing [except for republican General Pozas who wore an unofficial variant].
One thing I have seen is that officers at command of a unit larger than their rank would use to be in charge of wore a few smaller three-dot gold stars: 1 for a brigade, 2 for a division, 3 for an army corps; and 4 for an army. The gold stars were placed in line under the rank insignia. A general would just bear 4 stars when commanding an army, ranks under general could display 1-4 stars depending the unit they were commanding at the time, for example, a colonel at the head of a division would show two stars under his insignia, and just one if commanding a brigade.
Anyway, the common Spanish stars display [1 Brigadier (General de Brigada) 2 Major General (General de División) 3 Lieutenant General (Teniente General) and 4 General (former Capitán General rank, now General del Ejército)] was not used in the Republican Army.
I hope this will be of some use.

Congratulations for the drawings, and thanks to all for the posts.
Regards

Felip

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General

Post  wfrad on Thu 22 Oct 2009, 11:13 pm

Hi Chris
I went back and had another look at the source and after another attempt at translation this is what I missed.
In 1936 one grade that changed in 1937 but no mention of what the change was or how the ranks were marked or named during the transition, only to change back again to one grade in 1938.
No mention also of the small stars under the rank motive that Felip mentioned, the small stars really make sense when you think about it.
Regards
WF

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