RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

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RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Les-Art on Sat 03 Oct 2009, 9:56 am

The RCMP recently visited the UK to present the Queen with a new horse to replace ,the soon to be retired one ,called 'Burmese' that they presented to her many years ago.
Their 'PIPE BAND' , which was called the 'COMPOSITE BAND' on this occassion, were included as part of the contingent which took part in a Military Tatoo near Windsor Castle.
http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/13/98/25/75/rcmp_p10.jpg
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I compiled these photos together which clearly show the uniforms and a swatch of tartan.
The rack of tunics show the current specialist badges for pipers and drummers, and their ranks. The bagpipes with a wreath round them are new to me and presumably represnt a senior piper.

Comments and questions welcomed.

Regards,
Les

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Sean on Sun 04 Oct 2009, 6:42 pm

Thanks, Les.
I had a question a while ago about the yellow flashes on a drawing of the RCMP band I had done.
I remember having a copy of the photograph, but do you think I could find it?
So there you go.

Thanks mate

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Pipers Badge

Post  wfrad on Mon 05 Oct 2009, 5:57 am

Going by the British Army which I would imagin the RCMP would closely follow.
Piper has a single set of pipes, design varied depending on regiment whilst the Pipe Major has the pipes enclosed in a wreath.
Notice the lower sleeves of the uniforms with the wreath badge, I believe they have the stripes for a Pipe Major whilst the uniform of the sergeant has the pipe badge without the wreath.
Regards
WF

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additional info

Post  Les-Art on Wed 07 Oct 2009, 6:32 am

Hi guys,
Couple of points that you may find of interest regarding the RCMP Pipe Band.

Firtsly the sock flashes, the photo on the bottom right of the page turns out to not be from the UK visit but was taken in Canada, you will note that the flashes are Red. I found some photos on Flickr taken in 2009 in Canada of the full Pipe Band and they are Red also, so it looks like the smaller COMPOSITE BAND are the ones that use the Yellow flashes.

I found an article in the Scottish Sunday Mail newspaper as to the origins of the band in 1998.
The Kilt will be part of the NEW Scottish Dress for occassions like the Nova Scotia Highland Games as is in keeping with the forces Scottish roots. The Scottish Tartan Soiciety have registered it as the RCMP Tartan.
Sergeant Graham Muir told the Sunday Mail ' It took us months to painstaking research before we finally chose the one tartan which includes all our national colours. We've developed a uniform that features a Glengarry instead of the traditional stetson, spats instead of shiny boots, kilt and sporran instead of breeches.'The Tartan was designed by Violet Holmes wife of the RCMP Retired Assistant Commissioner.

The Tartan was pushed forward as a development to help celebrate the forces 125th anniversary and to mark it's Scottish heritage.

The insignias of the Pipes and Pipes with wreath surround are NEW to the Mounties and were not used before the development of the band in 1998. So you may be right that they follow military regulations as do a lot of the Mounties insignias.

Best Regards,
Les

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seeking current RCMP rank chart

Post  Les-Art on Fri 09 Oct 2009, 6:52 am

Hi Guys,
It looks like my RCMP rank charts are out of date, so anyone out there got an illustration of the current rank insignias and if possible appointment badges.

The photo I posted showing the Red Serge tunics on the rack show that the two pipers badges, the Drum badge and the lower sleeve rank of 4 point up chevrons with crown above are all new.

So any help is appreciated, especially on the title of the rank and where it slots in with the other NCO/warrant Officer ones.
Thanks,
Best Regards,
Les

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  ChrisF202 on Fri 09 Oct 2009, 7:08 am

Les-Art wrote:Hi Guys,
It looks like my RCMP rank charts are out of date, so anyone out there got an illustration of the current rank insignias and if possible appointment badges.

The photo I posted showing the Red Serge tunics on the rack show that the two pipers badges, the Drum badge and the lower sleeve rank of 4 point up chevrons with crown above are all new.

So any help is appreciated, especially on the title of the rank and where it slots in with the other NCO/warrant Officer ones.
Thanks,
Best Regards,
Les
Four chevrons on the cuffs worn point up is Staff Sergeant.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/unif/badge-insigne-b-eng.htm
http://www.uniforminsignia.org/?option=com_insigniasearch&Itemid=53&result=552

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Les-Art on Fri 09 Oct 2009, 7:26 am

Thanks, that is what my rank chart shows however it is not worn with a crown above it at any time that I can find out. So the question still stands as to what rank it is .
Is it a Senior Staff Sergeant for instance ,as the next rank up is a Staff Sergeant Major.

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Drum & Pipe Major

Post  wfrad on Fri 09 Oct 2009, 9:00 am

Les
I think that they rate as sergeant majors.
Regards
Wf

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Les-Art on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 6:09 am

Hi WF,
Sorry to say this is not the way that the RCMP works, it is a strict regiment as far as the insignias are concerned.
Adding crowns has a signifigance as far as a qualification badge is concerned which means that a higher award has been made, however crowns appear on the ranks as part of the rank. So if anything the crown should have been above the Pipes patch to signify a higher qualification.
I noticed that the RCMP website is for 2003, which is the last official chart I have seen, they added the crossed auto pistols to replace the crossed revolvers. So it clearly has not been updated for these new insignias.
Although I do agree that the photo of the band with the pipe Major at the front clearly shows him wearing the same configuration of insignias as the jackets on the rack.

More research is needed.

Best Regards,
Les

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chevrons

Post  wfrad on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 9:32 am

Les
Les
I admit that Iím just going of the British system and that really I havenít a clue.
The thing is, four chevrons and crown are the insignia for sergeant majors and traditionally drum majors and pipe majors wore their chevrons inverted, so the four inverted chevrons and crown seemed to represent sergeant major.
Also drum and pipe majors tended to rank as sergeant majors even if only within the band.
As you say a strict regiment wouldnít I believe allow the use of four chevrons and crown, sergeant major, without giving that grade to the wearer albeit inverted chevrons.
The pipers/drummers badge could be too represented their band grade in addition to the cuff ranks.
The pipers/drummers badge is their appointment badge which would be in addition and above the rank badge, in this case one the upper arm.
Notice also that there appears to be no sergeantís rank in the photo, three chevrons and crown, maybe drum and pipes for staff sergeant?
Does this make any sense?
Regards
WF

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Les-Art on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 10:52 am

Well knowing nothing about pipe band insignias and the wearing of such, I would say that you make perfect sense with regard to your explanation. I'll go along with that.

I would agree that the insignia shown are purely band related as you say no official sergeant ranks, as that would have a crown above the Drum or Pipes.

So problem solved. Thanks.

Regards,
Les.

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Just a theory

Post  wfrad on Sat 10 Oct 2009, 10:47 pm

Hi les
Just a theory but itís about the best I can come up with, problem is that when looking at the RCMP bands there appears to be many bands with members who are not actually serving officers.
How would that fit into the rank structure unless the insignia is just band related, or non serving members donít receive rank?
I have tried to find information as to how the band ranks fit into the RCMP rank structure, without success, only finding regulations regarding the tartan and non regarding rank equivalents between regular ranks and band ranks.
So I made the assumption, right or wrong, that the band ranks were only band related only.
For example, a serving sergeant could be a drum major in the band and have the status while in the band of sergeant major.
This could be a far out as a crow could fly but you never know, someone may have the correct answer.
I await to be corrected!
Regards
WF

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Re: RCMP PIPE BAND VISIT TO UK 2009

Post  Les-Art on Sun 11 Oct 2009, 2:28 am

Hi WF,
I'll go along with your theory that the ranks shown are purely band related.
Knowing what I do about the regular rank structure and the length of service needed to attain even the rank of Corporal then this many sergeants in one band would seem extraordinary.

The regular RCMP band , brass and drums, utilise the members rank insignias with the addition of the 'lyre' appointment badge on the right sleeve. The placement is the upper arm and in the case of Corporals is worn directly above the chevrons and with the sergeant it is above the chevron but below the crown. All band members are regular serving personell.

I would suggest that members of the Pipe Band are volunteers and could be civilians, retired and serving members playing in their own time in keeping with other police related Pipe Bands.

So I would accept your premise unless someone knows different of course!

Redards,
Les

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