Trying to put a book together

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Trying to put a book together

Post  mohamedhossam on Thu 01 Aug 2013, 6:47 pm

Hey everyone

I have a somewhat ambitious project that I'm trying to put together; a book on the military (and civil/court) uniforms of Egypt during the rule of the Muhammad Aly Dynasty, specifically late 1800s to 1952.

I have dozens of photographs and illustrations, the problem is I don't know what uniform is what. For example, I have at least four different lancer uniforms, three of which are supposed to be the Royal Guard Cavalry yet they include what I know to be the "correct" uniforms (blue w/ red plastron front full dress winter, and white w/ white plastron front full dress summer) as well as a third uniform in a third color scheme. Then for army officers and soldiers I have a variety of uniforms, such as the British-style jacket, with shirt and tie with trousers, then the same uniform with riding breeches and boots, the same uniform with a cloth belt, and yet again with a leather Sam Browne type belt. I think the British system of uniforms was the main influence and I can see alot of analogies, such as the British "general's frock coat" and the Egyptian general's uniform (of which there exists a summer and winter variant).

Generals' Uniform:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] (Rank appears to be indicated on the cuff as well as the epaulet, I have seen this uniform with 3 stars, 2, 1, and none).
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] (White uniform in the left side of the photo behind the Regent's chair)

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can categorize uniforms and the different variations that exist? The only 'official' documentation from Egypt from that era that I have found include a footnote to a "Protocol for Ceremonial Dress" that describes the military equivalents for court dress. These are described as:
i) "Large/Grand" Ceremonial w/ Orders and Decorations
ii) "Small/Minor" Ceremonial
iii) "Instructional" (Review?) Order/Status with Sword and Sword-Belt

and I found a scan from another Protocol book with four examples of uniforms (example used was Cavalry, but I am unsure if it was line or royal guard) it consists of:
i) Full Dress (Winter)
ii) Review
iii) Field Dress
iv) Mess dress (British style with 'dinner' jacket and bowtie)

So any suggestions or ideas?



mohamedhossam

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Egypt

Post  wfrad on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 7:30 am

There's a small book, 44pages, Military History of Egypt by W.Y. Carmen.
Although quite interesting, it only gives a very brief overview of the uniforms which I believe won't help you much.
It is possible to find a pdf copy on the internet.

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Re: Trying to put a book together

Post  Sean on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 8:01 am

What I would say is that you can generally categorise by Review Order (winter & summer), General duty dress (winter & summer), Field Order (winter & summer) and mess dress. Of course there are then vagaries such as court order and less formal parade uniforms.
If I can help with puyting it together onto a CD then let me know.

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Re: Trying to put a book together

Post  mohamedhossam on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 8:03 pm

wfrad:
I've seen it actually it is one of the best sources I have found and was extremely helpful, thanks alot.

Sean:
Thanks alot. Do you know what were the different orders of dress for the British Army during this era? Roughly late 1930s to 1950? Also, in the British army at the time, were the cavalry the only service who wore shoulder chains instead of epualettes?

Thanks

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Re: Trying to put a book together

Post  Sean on Sun 04 Aug 2013, 6:02 am

In essence they were the orders of dress, but no winter and summer delineation. Shoulder chains were a cavalry item, worn by the regular regiments and yeomanry. But not all cavalry wore them, all the time.

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Shoulder chains

Post  wfrad on Mon 05 Aug 2013, 11:05 am

You could have officers serving with the Royal Engineers wearing chains, an oddity from having Yeomanry units changing over to RE Field Squadrons.
No dress regulations as such but details of some units dress, Royal Armourd Corps Unidforms since 1946 by Bodsworth.

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Re: Trying to put a book together

Post  Sean on Tue 06 Aug 2013, 6:17 am

The same is true of Yeomanry units converted to Armoured Corps and the Artillery, but not all. This was in the 1930s. After the war Yeomanry were also converted to Signals units.

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