European, but who?

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European, but who?

Post  Sean on Sun 31 Mar 2013, 6:28 am

Possibly Baltic. But I have no idea from where.


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Post  wfrad on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:38 am

For starters...
Cuffs could be Portuguese,
Collars could be Austrian,
Badges German,
So what we have is a group of individuals who are making their escape by confusing everyone!
Or
Maybe Austrain.
Didn't the Austrian army officers have stripes on the sleeve, three for field, two for captain and one for lieutenant, with the same pattern lace as worn on the Shako.
The office behind the cup has what appears to be an old style parade tunic, no pockets and minus facings, whilest the officer to his left has the standard style service tunic. Officers to his right are wearing the style of tunic with the squarer pockets seen during the war.

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Re: European, but who?

Post  Animal on Fri 05 Apr 2013, 12:08 pm

My guess would be the Finnish Jager battalion raised by the Germans in WWI, which ended up serving as the nucleus of the new Finnish Army.

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Post  wfrad on Fri 05 Apr 2013, 8:57 pm

I discounted the Finnish army due to lack of information.

Also believing that been trained by the German army, they would have probably worn German uniforms or a combination of German and Imperial Russian.
Possibly a mistake on my part for not considering the Finnish army.

I came across this site, it doesn't give any answers to the question regarding the photograph but it is interesting.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/FinnishTunicsectionrevised.asp

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Re: European, but who?

Post  Sean on Sun 07 Apr 2013, 6:33 am

Given the WW1 medals and the Germanic appearance I thought Wurttemburg Polizei, but the guy at left wears a Dutch-style shako. Or is it a hardened version of the field cap. The cockade suggests Wurttemburg (black and red) but the rank insignia is unusual.

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Re: European, but who?

Post  mconrad on Thu 11 Apr 2013, 9:16 am

Stumped. Checked my Dutch references - negative on fly-front tunics, negative on horizontal cuff braid. Collar rank could be Dutch. Far left kepi very Dutch. References negative on "soft" versions of the kepi. Maybe the left hand man is Dutch and the other three some kind of German organization? Iron crosses!

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Unknown

Post  wfrad on Sat 13 Apr 2013, 10:05 pm

Also,
The figure behind the cup has a small triangular badge above the bars on his cuff, non of the others appear to have this badge.
The officer to his left has what appears to be a WWI wound badge but when magnified it seems to be, at least to me, to be a helmet and crossbones similar to some of the German military organisations that appeared after WWI.
I say appears, unable to get any great detail.
[img][/img]

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Re: European, but who?

Post  Animal on Sun 14 Apr 2013, 5:43 am

mconrad wrote:Stumped. Checked my Dutch references - negative on fly-front tunics, negative on horizontal cuff braid. Collar rank could be Dutch. Far left kepi very Dutch. References negative on "soft" versions of the kepi. Maybe the left hand man is Dutch and the other three some kind of German organization? Iron crosses!

The left hand man's belt is definitely German.

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Re: European, but who?

Post  dahardy on Sat 20 Jul 2013, 8:53 am

The rank insignia looks very clearly to be Austrian or Austrian influenced. The second from right has what appears to be a captain's rank and the two figures on the ends may be lieutenants. The second from left is harder to figure as the spacing doesn't correspond to familiar patterns for Austrian rank. The kepi has an Austrian look to it, with a two-button fastening. The cockade is hard to make out. Three are wearing the Iron Cross, so I'm guessing Austrian officers, and WW I  veterans.

EDIT: Is that a German wound badge on the two figures on the right? It makes me wonder if they were Austrians attached to German forces in WWI, and thus bearing German medals, or German veterans who joined the Austrian forces after the war?

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Re: European, but who?

Post  Animal on Mon 22 Jul 2013, 3:30 pm

dahardy wrote:The rank insignia looks very clearly to be Austrian or Austrian influenced. The second from right has what appears to be a captain's rank and the two figures on the ends may be lieutenants. The second from left is harder to figure as the spacing doesn't correspond to familiar patterns for Austrian rank. The kepi has an Austrian look to it, with a two-button fastening. The cockade is hard to make out. Three are wearing the Iron Cross, so I'm guessing Austrian officers, and WW I  veterans.

EDIT: Is that a German wound badge on the two figures on the right? It makes me wonder if they were Austrians attached to German forces in WWI, and thus bearing German medals, or German veterans who joined the Austrian forces after the war?

If they were Austrian, their pockets would have the 3 pointed flaps.

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Tunics

Post  wfrad on Tue 23 Jul 2013, 3:37 am

I believe that the Austrian army used captured Italian tunics to compensate for a lack of their own tunics.  
The Italian tunics was similar to those shown having a straight pocket flap, while a second style of Italian tunic had no flap.
So maybe these could be captured Italian tunics, major alterations to captued uniforms would maybe not have been given a high priority at the time.

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Re: European, but who?

Post  Animal on Fri 15 May 2015, 5:41 am

wfrad wrote:I believe that the Austrian army used captured Italian tunics to compensate for a lack of their own tunics.  
The Italian tunics was similar to those shown having a straight pocket flap, while a second style of Italian tunic had no flap.
So maybe these could be captured Italian tunics, major alterations to captued uniforms would maybe not have been given a high priority at the time.

Italian officer's tunics had front pockets, while enlisted men's tunics didn't. However, the officer's tunics also had shoulder straps.

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