Help on Uniforms

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Help on Uniforms

Post  sbintayab on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

Hello,
I have downloaded some images on Uniforms of British army 1855. I have some doubts on following image-
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My doubts are-
1. Was it field officer or company grade officer?
2. How field officer and company officer were distinguished from each other by rank (specially cuff and collar)?
Can anyone help me about my doubts?
Regards
Shams

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Re: Help on Uniforms

Post  ChrisF202 on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:25 am

At that time all officers rank insignia was based around either a pip, a crown, or a pip and a crown with field grade officers officers having a thicker collar lacing than company grade officers.

2nd Lt - pip and thin lacing
Lt - crown and thin lacing
Capt - pip and crown and thin lacing
Major - pip and thick lacing
Lt Col - crown and thick lacing
Col - pip and crown and thick lacing

Major General, Lt General, and General had the same system but with even thicker lacing.
Field Marshal wore crossed sword and baton with generals lacing.

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Re: Help on Uniforms

Post  sbintayab on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 9:53 am

Thanks ChrisF202.

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Re: Help on Uniforms

Post  sbintayab on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 3:20 am

Dear ChrisF202
Some of your information has some errors. As per dress regulations 1855, 1857, 1861, 1864 thickness of the lace of Field and Company grade officer is half inch and general officers and Field marshal is one inch.
So, the collar rank and lace of the life guards and Horse guards regiment were different from your reply. In dress regulations 1855, there was no mentioning of dress of Life guards and Horse guards regiments.
Can you help me on this?
Regards
Shams

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Re: Help on Uniforms

Post  ChrisF202 on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 5:25 am

sbintayab wrote:Dear ChrisF202
Some of your information has some errors. As per dress regulations 1855, 1857, 1861, 1864 thickness of the lace of Field and Company grade officer is half inch and general officers and Field marshal is one inch.
So, the collar rank and lace of the life guards and Horse guards regiment were different from your reply. In dress regulations 1855, there was no mentioning of dress of Life guards and Horse guards regiments.
Can you help me on this?
Regards
Shams
My only source that I have is from the 1870s regulations (ie: Zulu War era). I will have to go digging around and see if I can find the chart I have, it's in my "rank insignia folder" somewhere Cool

AFAIK the Life Guards and the Horse Guards had a different system of enlisted ranks but the insignia would have been the same. Same with officers except Second Lieutenant would have been called Cornet.

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NCOs

Post  wfrad on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 9:51 am

Unlike Chris my information is fragmented and all over the place, Oh to be organised.
The painting seems to be missing some items from the cuffs and collar.
I could be very wrong but what I believe to be the situation for NCO's at the time was:
Dress is a little confusing before 1855 and a little hit and miss, even after 1855 it hard to find detailed evidence of what was actually worn as many paintings and records just contradict each other.
In full dress rank was denoted by use of epaulettes, aiguillette and the lace on the coat.
Troop Quartermasters wore epaulettes with medium long fringes while Trumpet Majors had longer still fringes, Trumpeters short thick fringes and other NCO's and men used scales.
Aiguillettes were only worn by Troop Quartermaster's and NCO's. Quartermaster's were replaced by Troop Corporal Majors.

So after the introduction of Troop Corporal Majors the wore epaulettes with long thick fringes and a first class aiguillette.
Trumpet Majors and Drum Majors were staff NCO's.
In 1855 epaulettes were abolished and replaced by shoulder cords.
The tunic had stand and fall collar with gauntlet cuffs.
On the cuff there was a hollow chevron of gold lace with a button in the centre, on the collar an open loop of gold lace with a button at the rear [Officers had a more elaborate cuff design with button] which I don't see in the painting.
Then according to the individual rank the tunic varied in the amount of braid on cuffs and skirt.

Staff Corporals 1st class and Trumpet Majors wore first class aiguillettes, bandmasters on the right others on the left.
Staff Corporals 2nd Class wore and Corporals wore second class aigullettes.
Privates shoulder straps in facing colour edged with gold lace.
Shortley after this ranks changed again, for example in 1871 the ranks of Cornet and Ensign were abolished and made sub Lieutenants, altered to 2nd Lieutenants in 1877. In 1881 the rank of 2nd Lieutenant was abolished only to reappear in 1887.

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Re: Help on Uniforms

Post  sbintayab on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 2:17 pm

Thanks Wilf. One thing I want to ask for your favor. In dress regulation 1855, I didn't get any information about the dress of Life guards or Horse guards. Can you help me about the dress designed for Life guards and Horse guards in 1855?
regards
Shams

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Llife Guards

Post  wfrad on Wed 27 Jun 2012, 5:24 am

Shams
My problem with the picture you posted dated 1855 is the tunic.
I believed that the tunic replaced the coatee in 1857, so why is this dated 1855?
As for uniform illustrations of that period I have:
A poor picture of a Private1st Life Guards 1857,
A poor picture of a dismounted Private Royal Horse guards 1855,
Illustration of Corporal 2nd Life Guards 1860.
Life Guards helmet 1842-71.
Written details are far and few between leaving more answers that questions,
The illustration of the Life Guard 1860 from British Cavalry Uniforms Since 1660 by M. Barthorp illus by Pierrre Turner
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